Kittenplay Forum now at http://kittenplay.net

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Oh no, truly off-topic! Pro-clicking only, please.

luannablue · Veteran Member

wild guess here but this is about politcs right?

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Let me go ahead and quote myself.

"The first thing I'm looking for in responses are honest opinions from people who are not living in the US on what they think of our current situation, and our current political situation, and why they think what they do."

this might help too:

"Before you roll your eyes at some of the words in this post (politics), just remember that you don't -have- to answer or even keep reading. I'm doing this out of curiosity."

Of course, if you're being sarcastic, that is acceptable. You might want to include images from 4chan.org so that I know you're NOT serious though.

luannablue · Veteran Member

was manly asking befor posting.
(goddess i cant spell tonight)

w1ntermute · Senior Member

If you were manly, you should have included pictures of Walker, Texas Ranger.

luannablue · Veteran Member

nooooo not the man that sings his own theam song........

also this pic fits manly a tad better jk

-- Edited by luannablue at 04:36, 2008-10-18

w1ntermute · Senior Member

This is going downhill faster than I could have ever imagined.

luannablue · Veteran Member

if there is one thing im good at its killing threds lol

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Should I just bring out the goatse fake link, ebaumsworld ancient non-humor stolen content, and close the thread in a burning of bridges and suicidal banme attempts?

luannablue · Veteran Member

naw this might be kinda fun lol

fun pic

w1ntermute · Senior Member

On topic on topic... get this train back on the tracks.

Why we suck:

Fundamental attribution error, anti-intellectualism, insular, constant indoctrination of exceptionalism, identity politics and overall, enough wealth and prosperity to ensure that the practice or belief of such ignorance does not hinder you in the least.

Discuss.

luannablue · Veteran Member

M: wow i dont even know were to start on that........

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

As someone who lives in the U.S.....well, I think it's a bit more complicated then that. I think before I actually start discussing my views, I should give you some background on myself. For one, I come from a Jewish bloodline, though I am a solid atheist (both of which I have been berated for in my life). I won't go into too many details, but my family has been screwed over by the American "justice" system many times. I am also bisexual, and involved in various communities in my area related to the...umm...what was that acronym? GLBDQ? Anyway, this means I'm horribly biased, but who isn't?

Recently, I've been appaled with the amount of...well...idiocy in this country. I can't give any factual evidence. But I can hardly take a drive anywhere without seeing some kind of pro-christian anti-somebody propaganda...or a church for that matter...there is WAY too many of them here. Shouldn't we be housing the homeless with that space? Not to mention that Gay Marraige or stem cell research or any of those things are even issues here. I don't know what else really to say or what kind of evidence I should give for stating what I percieve to be the state of this country. But as of now I am living here reluctantly.

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Since I'm still waking up, I'll make my first reply short and probably unintelligible.

What you're talking about in your second paragraph is a very very touchy subject. I do understand the sentiment, since I have friends and family who fall into similar categories of your background.

Both sides of the arguement have some valid points as far as the pro-Christian and pro-secular/agnostic/athiest movements in the US. The most striking thing that I notice on a daily basis of watching cable news, or another mainstream media outlet is the blatant double standard that most people as Americans experience every day. That double standard would be the time, attention, and influence the very vocal Evangelical Christians have. This is not to say that they don't deserve a voice. This is to say that there is a disparity between the way that our country was created, the distribution of different views in our current population, and the influence one group has over many others. Newdow v. Congress anybody? Never been overturned, but still ignored.

Lets keep this toward the facts and away from some of the more inflammatory opinion. We're not looking to offend people on the forum, only to discuss and debate.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

luannablue · Veteran Member

M: i think the biggest problem is the perseption of what is "called" main stream america.

side note: more then likely most of what you will get will be opinion. given the large choice of subjects.

will add more to this once i get a bit more time

Crystal · Senior Member

As a residential and virtually happy american I offer only one opinion. Palin is ****ing crazy.

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I'll combine my replies for both of you in this one.

luannablue: The perception of "main stream media" is precisely what I'm getting at. *cough* FOX News etc. If you want to throw your hat in for NPR or something vaguely representative of actual reporting then you get a gold star.
On the topic of opinion, I'll quote myself in saying "inflammatory opinion". I can get a bit angsty myself, and if anybody calls me out on it I can be mature enough to say that I was wrong.

Crystal: While your reply is short, and without anything to back up your claims.... I think at this point in her public campaign career we can just go ahead and agree.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Speaking on the point of opinions in this thread. Unfortunately, as the scope of topics in this thread is so innumerably large, it's hard to inspire facts unless we are to focus in on one topic. If we are to focus on, say, the issue of secularism in America or legalization or gay marraige, etc. etc. etc. The facts would be more abundant as the topic is more focused. As of now, however, It's hard to inspire facts and evidence, when the issues we're bringing up are really used as examples on our own opinion on the state of American society as a whole. Save, of course, for Crystal's response. biggrin

Speaking on secularism in America. As far as my experience goes, thankfully my high school did not strictly enforce saying the pledge. So not long after I chose to abstain from doing so, and I continued to do so, amidst glares from my classmates. Not only because of the one disputed line, mind you, but because I am an adament hater of nationalism. Having pride in one's country is fine, but blind faith in it is ludicrous to me. And I equate the pledge of allegiance to a sort of brainwashing technique to keep the masses in line. I mean...just look at the title. But I digress. The sad truth is that the country has about seventeen christian channels of all different denominations, yet Jews are stuck on the public access channel...And if someone suggested an atheist or otherwise channel...they would get shot down and chased out of the studio.

Crystal · Senior Member

My post is short because I kinda forfited my right to complain about it. I didn't register to vote.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Crystal wrote:

My post is short because I kinda forfited my right to complain about it. I didn't register to vote.

You know, I honestly don't get the logic behind that whole thing. I mean, There are some people who refuse to vote because they believe it's a broken system of government (which, if you ask me, it is). Does that forfeit your right to complain about it? I certainly don't think so.

And regardless, the electoral college pretty much guarantees that no one's votes actually count. It was originally created to account for a percieved lack of information amongst the masses, which has obviously been rectified now. And so, logic dictates, it should be dismantled. It has not...I'll leave it to you to infer from here.

Sui Juris Cattus · Guru

The_Sequel wrote:

Crystal wrote:

My post is short because I kinda forfited my right to complain about it. I didn't register to vote.

You know, I honestly don't get the logic behind that whole thing. I mean, There are some people who refuse to vote because they believe it's a broken system of government (which, if you ask me, it is). Does that forfeit your right to complain about it? I certainly don't think so.
And regardless, the electoral college pretty much guarantees that no one's votes actually count. It was originally created to account for a percieved lack of information amongst the masses, which has obviously been rectified now. And so, logic dictates, it should be dismantled. It has not...I'll leave it to you to infer from here.

Sequel, you're spot on with the EC... not many people realize its original intentions or if they do, they refuse to acknowledge that its now obsolete. It primary purpose was to protect the populace from itself as most 18th/19th century Americans had less than what we would consider to be a first grade education.

Another point worth mentioning was that it specifically states that if we, the people, find our government to be a broken thing that no longer accomplishes its intended goals, that we should abolish it and start over. Unfortunately, having said that, I probably need to start looking over my shoulder as Homeland Security will be coming to arrest me. I've occasionally wondered if HS should be equated with Stasi...

Crystal, you should go and register...although its too late for this election. Sequel pointed out that a lot of folks refuse to vote as they perceive it to be a flawed system. That said, you can't expect anything to get fixed/repaired/altered if no one knows you're unhappy with the system.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Thank you, Cattus. I do agree with you on many points in your post. Most specifically that (and I am injecting my own philosophy into this sentence) we are long overdue for a reform...or revolution. Personally I am leaning towards revolution, as it has become apparent to me that there will be no change in government until arms are taken. Unfortunately, government jobs attract those who are attracted to power. And soon enough every government succumbs to those that run it, and begin to strangle the common man.

I am reminded of a quote by Thomas Jefferson: "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Sui Juris Cattus · Guru

or as Captain Ramius at the end of Hunt for Red October puts it...

"A little revolution, now and then, is a healthy thing. Don't you think?"

w1ntermute · Senior Member

The_Sequel wrote:

Speaking on the point of opinions in this thread. Unfortunately, as the scope of topics in this thread is so innumerably large, it's hard to inspire facts unless we are to focus in on one topic. If we are to focus on, say, the issue of secularism in America or legalization or gay marraige, etc. etc. etc. The facts would be more abundant as the topic is more focused. As of now, however, It's hard to inspire facts and evidence, when the issues we're bringing up are really used as examples on our own opinion on the state of American society as a whole. Save, of course, for Crystal's response.

Speaking on secularism in America. As far as my experience goes, thankfully my high school did not strictly enforce saying the pledge. So not long after I chose to abstain from doing so, and I continued to do so, amidst glares from my classmates. Not only because of the one disputed line, mind you, but because I am an adament hater of nationalism. Having pride in one's country is fine, but blind faith in it is ludicrous to me. And I equate the pledge of allegiance to a sort of brainwashing technique to keep the masses in line. I mean...just look at the title. But I digress. The sad truth is that the country has about seventeen christian channels of all different denominations, yet Jews are stuck on the public access channel...And if someone suggested an atheist or otherwise channel...they would get shot down and chased out of the studio.

I have to agree with you on the scope of this thread, and I take the blame on not providing a focused topic of discussion. I may sound hypocritical now in saying this thread is rather masturbatory in that we're all pretty much aligned with the same social and political views, but that leads me to my next statement.

Since when has it been so offensive to debate and discuss disagreeing opinions? I don't think we'll be seeing too many varying opinions in here, but thats just my guess. I know most internet forums foster a clique mentality, especially with political and social opinion, but I'd much rather have a good debate, and maybe even learn something I didn't know.

When did it become vogue to be so ignorant? Its like a point of pride to tow your party's line, and know nothing about it. Even worse, on issues that will affect every single person in this country in one way or the other, its like an offense to even know the "other side's" actual position. I guess my major gripe with the population of the US in general has been the ignorance, hatred, and blind faith in one's own political party. Seeing people vote Democrat or Republican just because they align themselevs with the party, or ONE issue that party advocates your way makes me so frustrated.

"OH NO, YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!" No, I just like what THIS guy represents, things he wants to pass, etc etc.

edit: I know this one isn't very 'factual' but I wanted to add my part to everybody else's comments/rants. also spelling

tl;dr: for the lazy... I agree with everybody above my post, rants included.

-- Edited by w1ntermute at 02:43, 2008-10-23

-- Edited by w1ntermute at 03:03, 2008-10-23

Crystal · Senior Member

It's just a pain cuz I don't have an address right now

Sui Juris Cattus · Guru

Its a proven fact that nothing is more divisive betweens friends and family as politics and religion.

I think the ignorance fact is partially due to the de-evolution of social niceities and the downward spiral of the American public education system.

When I was studying journalism, twenty years ago, we were told to write to the average reader, who had roughly the same cognative abilities as a fifth grader. Now, the general populace has a third grade reading level... Whats next, pictographs for classical English literature?

-- Edited by Sui Juris Cattus at 04:27, 2008-10-23

-- Edited by Sui Juris Cattus at 04:28, 2008-10-23

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Sui Juris Cattus wrote:

Its a proven fact that nothing is more divisive betweens friends and family as politics and religion.

I think the ignorance fact is partially due to the de-evolution of social niceities and the downward spiral of the American public education system.

When I was studying journalism, twenty years ago, we were told to write to the average reader, who had roughly the same cognative abilities as a fifth grader. Now, the general populace has a third grade reading level... Whats next, pictographs for classical English literature?

-- Edited by Sui Juris Cattus at 04:27, 2008-10-23

-- Edited by Sui Juris Cattus at 04:28, 2008-10-23

I think you're right about the average reader. Ever seen a film called Idiocracy?

Thats what I think about the people who still love G.W.B. It boggles my mind.

Sui Juris Cattus · Guru

I once read how W. was sitting in the back of a history class on the first day, when the Yale football team walked in, spotted him and the QB said "If George is here, this is the class for us!"
*facepalm*

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

As far as debates go, I seem to be an exception to what most of you are talking about...since I thrive on debates and arguements. I love them...can't go a week without one. Often I'll find myself being a bitch to someone or having a differeng opinion simply to inspire an arguement. Part of this may be because of my status as an actor (and obviously the passion for psychology that goes along with that practice). Anyway, I love them.
And I think a lot of the degrade in American inteligence is due to the increase in standards for said intelligence, without the increase in the effectiveness of the school system. Most third graders are taught things that 20 years ago wouldn't have been touched until middle school. Yet the average schoolchild simply doesn't understand and doesn't care. And for good reason. The school system for the most part doesn't ask people what they want to learn, rather it tells them. Although, truthfully for the majority of the masses, this may be a good thing. You see, I consider myself a learned person because I am an autodidact. Or "One who teaches themself". I have always had a craving to learn things, and commonly will latch onto one subject and research it until the subject becomes stale, before moving on. I realize this is a rare quality (and one that typically inspires awe in the 'average' person as to how I can absorb so much strange information). But attempting to inspire this in schoolchildren is what schools should be doing, rather than hammer truly useless knowledge into them (I have never ever used trigonometry in my life since sophmore year).
And...if you're interested...my current topic is sexual psychology, an absolutely fascinating field (yes, I realize how teh topic relates to this board...I assure you it's purely coincidental).

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Just a quick reply to the post above this one. I have such a huge respect for people who strive to educate themselves. I consider myself constantly learning, and most people who aren't afraid to tend to find common ground on many subjects. At least the ones I've met.

I'll agree with you to a point on the education system. The part that stands out to me, having struggled in grade school, is the lack of understanding and enjoyment the teachers have. Every subject I did well in had a teacher who was not burned out, overwhelmed, or out of their specialty. The other big factor is not caring. As a student its very easy to fall into this category. I simply didn't care about many classes. I'm sure it has to do with the above reasons as well.

Crystal · Senior Member

I guess I come from the opposite spectrum, I went to a small magnet highschool which stressed politics. Drove me nuts. Our teachers cared... too much. (Desperation for us to pass was evident, to the point where teachers would give you month long extentions on simple homework assignments without taking points off and regularly would shout 'I love you' as we left the class room) And that's why I believe I'm apathetic towards government. We held mock elections for candidates twice in everyones' highschool career and even had a trip to DC to go watch 'government happening'.

Relevant, maybe not.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Well, to reply to Crystal's post, it is actually quite relevant. It almost proves the point I was trying to make. Politics was hammered into you, and you began not to care and became apathetic towards the system as a whole (A dangerous state of being in my mind).
to reply to w1nter...I see where you're coming from. And I think it's very evident that the quality of students depends very much on the quaklity of teachers. I can still remember my favorite teachers, their enthusiasm, and their general...likeability. With my experience, I can easilly say that the best teachers are ones who don't act like teachers. Learning best comes from conversation, not lecture. Although, the notable exception is a good lecturer, who prefers to tell interesting stories in order to make their point (see: Assume the Position 101/102 and most TED lectures...which I quite enjoy watching). This is an element that has sorely become lost in today's school system.

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Speaking of TED lectures, you're absolutely right. I think I've seen every single one, and I love almost all of them, scratch one or two.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

w1ntermute wrote:

Speaking of TED lectures, you're absolutely right. I think I've seen every single one, and I love almost all of them, scratch one or two.

oOh yes...I love a lot of them. I don't think I've seen every single one, but I do watch the quite often.

Now...if you'll allow me to attempt to find a subject some of us disagree upon (time to spur some healthy debate). Hmm...*pondering*. Oh, I know. I personally believe that marijuana, both medicinally and recreationally, should be legalized. And that there should be no drinking age at all. Allow the lynchings to begin. (if you're wondering, yes I have evidence to support my ideas...I just prefer to wait for others' arguements to come my way before responding with said information...and to off-set the seirousness of these parenthesis...oingo boingo banana knickers.) biggrin

w1ntermute · Senior Member

You're not going to find any disagreements with me. Its not like drinking at any age is so much more enlightened or safer than pot. I haven't smoked since high school, but I still have no problem with others doing it.

I'll try to bonk my head against the desk until I come up with a possibly objectionable subject.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

w1ntermute wrote:
You're not going to find any disagreements with me.
I'll try to bonk my head against the desk until I come up with a possibly objectionable subject.

Oh come on! um....What about Gun Control? I'm against it! Censorship? Against! Abortion? For! What about video game violence? Gay marraige? Do you like my new signature? What's your favorite Broadway Musical?!

*head-to-desk*.....Mine's Aida....

-- Edited by The_Sequel at 04:00, 2008-10-25

w1ntermute · Senior Member

The signature is a little... overpowering. The rest I am actually with you on.
People need to get a grip with the whole gay marraige thing... Same with abortion. All of this attention to it is like the ramping up of the REALLY loud minority before it gets overrun by logical agreement on these things not ruining the world.

I have guns, **** censorship

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Really? Yeah...I suppose it does attract the eye a little more than it should...But I like it biggrin

And I doubt I'd really change it. Maybe I'll desaturate it a bit.
And...wow...Oh well. Carry on a conversation nontheless, eh? I don't have guns as it were. But I have plenty of melee weaponry. A katana, pair of sai, Ka-Bar, the list goes on and on. Oh...and a blowgun...I'm quite proud of how accurate I am with that.
Going on with trying to inspire a true debate, I'd like to talk about art for a minute. Most media nowadays has degraded to a point where I haven't watched anything on the television that's less than 10 years old in...quite a few weeks. Reality shows and blatant profiteering has made most entertainment a cavalcade of cliche and boredom. In other words...stanislovsky would have a field day. The only point in which art seems to thrive is in the theatre. Some shows that are coming out are truly groundbreaking and entertaining. Unfortunately, the situation in the business has caused prices so ludicrous that most people can't afford to go to any shows at all. And movie remakes, which seek to bring the show to a wider audience, often end up dissapointing, or ruining the source material. Case in point, Hairspray. Awesome movie, AMAZING show, alright movie...which now is getting a straight-to-film sequel...which I'm sure will completely ruin it for everyone just like High School Musical MY GOD I HATE THAT SCHLOCK!

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I might as well show off my guns, while I have the rare opportunity. Mosin-Nagant M44 Russian bolt action sniper rifle (ya know the movie "Enemy at the Gates" Vasily Zaytsev) and I also have a really useless .44 magnum 5 shot revolver. I only ever take them camping, and keep them locked in an actual gun locker.

I'm very much in agreement with you on the reality tv opinion, as well as the HUGE number of ****ty movie remakes, and the increasing cost of watching them. I've been watching more and more things like TED, PBS documentaries and the odd decent show on hulu.com and the like to skirt the absolute **** on tv. Deadwood, Weeds, Top Gear, House, Arrested Development, and a few others are the only shows in the past few years that I can honestly admit to watching, and recommend to others without feeling embarassed.

I wonder what John Waters thinks about the newer version? I hope I catch some comment from him about it sucking complete and total ass.

edit: funny I just noticed that most of the shows I mentioned are on HBO/Showtime or not made in the US.

-- Edited by w1ntermute at 05:25, 2008-10-25

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

John Waters is writing it. Unfortunately, as much as I respect the man...If he rerally wanted a sequel he would have made it already. This is just squeezing the success for the all important "MO' MONEH!".
I do like Weeds, and AD. A lot of the HBO/Showtime and foreign shows are exceptions to my rant. Including...of course....Doctor who, which I absolutely LOVE. I also enjoy Torchwood, though it's not perfect. Also...Joss Whedon fits into that category of exceptions. Especially Firefly/Serenity...awesome...shouldn't have been cancelled.
Also, I like the Mosin-Nagant a lot. I've been looking at getting a Yugoslavian SKS. Cheap, usefull, durable, etc. etc. etc. But as things are going I probably won't be getting it for a long time. *shrug* which is okay...it's not a huge need.

-- Edited by The_Sequel at 05:50, 2008-10-25

w1ntermute · Senior Member

The great thing about the Mosin-Nagants is that, like the AK, they made TONS of them. You can pick up your very own at a place like Big 5 Sporting Goods for $150-300!
They come in a variety of versions from bayonet short-range to long barrel sniper.
Anyway, I promise to get off the gun thing now!

Stupid John Waters, you're better than that!

I keep thinking of subjects to talk about, but its all ranting and tearing things apart with interpretation, and not facts. Damnit.

edit: oh oh I have a good one, although it could easily be taken as ANGSTY liberal rant. I'll post as many links to support my claim as possible. I do have suspicions that you'll agree with me though. Oh well.

How the hell can somebody call themselves Republican and be proud of it at this point? Easily said... but now for the links!

Angry voter threatens Registrar, says he needs to 'keep the n***** out of office'
Video: I think he's a one-man terror cell Yes, he would get this far if he were in any way connected to terrorism and not as Christian as you wish you could be. Give me a break. bleh
Video: GET A JOB! COMMIE FAGS!
Guy at Palin rally: KILL HIM! I have yet to hear any of these crazies who shout DURING a speech get told to shut up.
Video: I'M MAD! I'M MAD! Scary!
Crazy right-winger on food stamps hates liberals, guns down liberal churchgoers I am an ******* for putting this in here, but hate for liberals is hate for liberals I guess.
Lunatic catholic tries to kill Tom Daschle with anthrax because of views on abortion Lets kill people who have opposing views. ABOUT KILLING. Good idea.
Remember Eric Rudolph? He killed people and wounded more than a hundred in a campaign against abortion and gays.
Rightist guns down Arkansas Dems chairman I guess I'm an ******* for lumping this guy in here.
Obama volunteer assaulted, GOP finds a way to blame ACORN Lets blame ACORN for everything 'the Dems' do this election. doh
ACORN receives death threats, assassination threats, lots of references to old-time lynching I have to add that McCain gave a keynote AT ACORN in 2006... so yeah. People who obviously don't read the news. confused
Obama ghost lynched in Halloween display Sweet, lets take this back to pre 60s. Good job, guys.
Video: "I'm afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over." "I'm afraid someone's going to try to hurt Obama" lol nice thinly veiled threat, and really... 13.4% of the population is going to take over, and 66% not counting the "Mexican white" demographic is at risk. weirdface
Reporter assaulted at Palin rally

Obama called "traitor" again at McCain rally in Wisconsin (w/vid) Just lol
Yelling "Bomb Obama" at downticket debate Hey, its almost clever. Wait, no.

McCain campaign defends this **** Even if you write off most of the videos as 'fringe extreme' READ THIS. What the hell? McCain campaign defending some of these people. This gives some good insight into the reasons behind SO much misinformation being spread around. They actually support it. Great. Lets all go hang out with dinosaurs now, Palin says it happened.

Racism, kids and general white trash. For McCain. Go back to school.

Holy **** Las Vegas. People scare me.

I understand that I could just be picking out 'extreme' views, but this **** is happening daily.

I would really be interested in opposing views. Even if you lump all of those people into 'insane' there is still the problem of the past eight years, Karl Rove, etc.

-- Edited by w1ntermute at 19:37, 2008-10-25

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I'll add more fuel to the fire, while I'm sitting here bored.

"Bachmann: "Not All Cultures Are Equal"

More at http://www.theuptake.org. Rep. Michele Bachmann caught the national spotlight recently when she told MSNBC's Chris Mathews that Barack Obama "may have anti-American views."

While Bachmann's statement may have come as a surprise to people outside of her home district in central Minnesota, she has a history of making statements that are inflammatory, controversial and requiring further explanation. Up until now, the most famous of those was her assertion that there was a plan already in place to partition Iraq and give half of it to Iran. She later said her comments had been "misconstrued", but did not elaborate.

One comment that she has never explained was made in a debate she had while running for Congress the first time in November of 2005. Prompted by the rioting that was going on in France at the time, Bachmann said "not all cultures are equal, not all values are equal." and implied heavily that people of the Muslim faith had an inferior culture to that of the United States."

She says even more inflammatory **** than this in the video, primarily that there is an Islamic conspiracy, to turn kids in the west into liberals.

Back during the McArthy era, linking American Progressives to Communists actually did make some sense. Their views were arguably on the same side of the spectrum if you only view the spectrum as being a one dimensional, left versus right model. But trying to link modern day progressives with Islam? Absurd, and she should be ashamed for saying all of those things.

I'm sorry, what?

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

A lot of this stuff, really just gets me riles up against Christians (and I know there's catholic and apisca-whatever I don't care I'm using it as an umbrella term). I mean, yes, I know it's horribly insensitive and almost rascist but...I mean come on!
No offence to thiose of you who are practicing and believing christians, I'm sure you're fine people, etc. etc. etc. But you can't deny the amount of stupidity going about in the world because of the religioun, and the sheer destruction it has wrought upon the world (The crusades, Spanish Inquisition, the Klan, etc.)
And maybe it's just because I'm a lot of the things the religioun decides to hate and kill...but I just can't get over those facts.
And....well...I could keep going on and on but I'll stop there. Needless to say, the United States didn't start out as a "christian nation", but it has certainly become one....and not in a good way. And we all know what happens when christians take control....last time that happened, we called it "The Dark Ages".

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I don't want to go too far, and seem like I'm hating on any one group in particular. I think we agree for the most part though.

Its never good when one religious group thinks they are 'right' just because they believe they are, not for any logical reason. Hello, you're not doing yourselves any good by alienating the rest of the world.

What happens when America's airwaves fill with hate? BILL MOYERS JOURNAL takes a tough look at the hostile industry of "Shock Jock" media with a hard-hitting examination of its effects on our nation's political discourse.

edit: ^ added more fuel to fire ^

What a bunch of worthless pieces of crap. The video even centers around a church, so I'm not bashing religion... I'm bashing people who use it as an excuse for ignorance and hate.

let me add another edit just because this is SO ****ED UP:

Who can stand behind these people? Holy ****.

More "wow" from me. It just doesn't stop. yawn

-- Edited by w1ntermute at 22:54, 2008-10-25

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Wow...Wow....I mean, for some reason Abortion si this huge thing for me, and I don't know why. I have one friend, sweet girl, devout christian, who mentioned she thought abortion was wrong and I went BER-SERK!
I think I changed her mind, after stating how absolutely retarded mandatory birthing is, when the stem cells from aborted children can be used to help people who wouldn't be just another statistic in teh hundreds of adoption clinics around...which most children there don't get adopted because Gay people can't adopt in that "perfect world" and the Gay people are obviously...the people who would adopt the most frequently.

Actually...watching that video got me thinking about what that world would eb like with abortion illegalized...and of course that bring me to the idea of a "Perfect christian world"...and now i have a wonderful idea for a really dark musical. Almost along the lines of Repo! The Genetic Opera mixed with Sweeney Todd (but not the movie, the play. The movie sucked).

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I do understand how heated it can get, talking about religion and politics in general. There are some serious things that need addressing in our society. That being said, lets curb the vitriol. We don't need to blanket statement that ALL religion is bad, or that ALL republicans are evil.

As hard as it is to separate the current situations, things that stand out in history, loud and angry people that we've heard; we don't need to be so hateful ourselves.

I don't mean to say 'shut up'. Just realize that, while things can make us angry, its not 100% of the group's members who cause these things to occur. Remember: we have christians, republicans, and other groups of people here who have differing opinions. I'd really like to have a dialogue, discussion or debate with some of them. We can't do that if its hostile before we begin.

After school PSA over.

w1ntermute · Senior Member

Back on topic, I thought this quote from Salon.com summarized this election fairly well.

"In an election that has been fought on an astoundingly low cultural and intellectual level, with both candidates pretending that tax cuts can go like peaches and cream with the staggering new levels of federal deficit, and paltry charges being traded in petty ways, and with Joe the Plumber becoming the emblematic stupidity of the campaign, it didn't seem possible that things could go any lower or get any dumber. But they did last Friday, when, at a speech in Pittsburgh, Gov. Sarah Palin denounced wasteful expenditure on fruit-fly research, adding for good xenophobic and anti-elitist measure that some of this research took place "in Paris, France" and winding up with a folksy "I kid you not.""

*rimshot*

Idiocracy IRL. Get ready to start watering your plants with Gatorade. weirdface

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Wow...reallY? I can't......my mind has gone ablank with the idiocy of that statement. Meaning, of course, Gov. Palin's wonderfully xenophobic denouncement of the research...which unfortunately is not an uncommon practice among "Super patriots".

In fact, only today I had to defend myself against my family, due to my distaste of McCain and Palin. They support tweedledee and tweedledum due to their stance on Isreal (yay Jews!). After showing them some of the videos you posted, I was able to squeeze a "That's rediculous" out of them...but not much more.

To end this post, I will quote..."The world is a mess, and I just need to...rule it." biggrin

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I'm not surprised with their reaction, but for some reason I get the feeling that they will still be voting for McPalin. I think I'm only digging myself a deeper hole of disbelief and despair as I start to read some newer Gore Vidal. It really gets into the kind of philosophy that people who would blindly disregard logic, and see what they want to see in an election like this.

Bad news all around. On a lighter note, the new polling numbers in my 'battleground' state of Nevada show that (as an average of the two that I heard on NPR today) its about 51 Obama and 43 Mccain.

That may not sound like much, but when TEXAS is considered a battleground, this is going to be one hell of a landslide in my opinion.

w1ntermute · Senior Member

I'll take this opportunity to make a cranky comment on the twisting of words. I know. One comment does not a position make, but with the evidence from my last post I hope to keep stacking on the bricks.

Dennis Prager (syndicated radio talk show host and contributor to governmental appointments by G.W. Bush) stated at a speech, and I'll paraphrase the first part since all he does in interject more anti-France:

"Equality, which is the primary value of the left is a European value, not an American Value" he goes on to say: "The American revolution was not the French Revolution (...) we have a better value system, being protected by one of the two parties, the Republican party..." and the best part "The French Revolution said: Liberty, Fraternity, Equality, the American Revolution said: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

Lets examine the obvious mistake, if you've ever heard of the declaration of independence! The SAME sentence that reads ... "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" which he cherry picks STARTS WITH (and I'll quote the whole sentence)We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Now, in case you weren't satisfied with this one mention... lets read from the 14th amendment.All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Thanks for confusing more Republicans who don't read, duder. A+ hmm

edit: while I'm on a roll furious

The recent claims of 'Socialist' views of the Democratic party as of late are just HILARIOUS. Check the facts, son.

Teddy Roosevelt (Republican): Progressive taxation proponent. Taxes the rich more than the poor, to put it simply.

Ronald Reagan (Republican): Earned Income Tax Credit. Working persons (and couples) are actually given MORE of a tax credit than is proportionate with their actual taxes.

Note: I don't think there is a thing wrong with these ideas, nor does it stink of socialism. Its merely a way to (I think) tax the top earners a bit more, BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD IT. I love hearing rich people whine. This isn't middle-class rich. These are the top 5% to 1% of earners in the US. Oh dear, you mean because people make more, we can tax them more?! SWEET MERCIFUL HYPOCRISY. Do they even know what previous presidens did, or do they just not care?

Welcome to more twisting of words by recent Republican commercials. ashamed

edit NUMBAH TWO: I just can't help myself. More reading and more research equals hilarious opportunities for pointing out the sheer stupidity of this election season.

Since Elizabeth Dole (R) is fairly famous (you know... Bob) her campaign might be in North Carolina but I thought this was worth a mention. Its been on every major network news channel. By the way, her opponent is Kay Hagan (D).

Her latest commercial (scramble for anything since she's losing pretty badly) is just plain wrong. Lets examine this train wreck.

The ad begins with:A leader of the Godless Americans PAC recently held a secret fund-raiser in Kay Hagan's honor." It concludes: "She hid from cameras, took godless money. What did Hagan promise in return? doh

You really have to watch the whole thing, its disgusting. Excuse the local news clip surrounding it, the first one I found.

Lets look at the facts! The fund-raiser had over 40 attendees. There was ONE attendee who was from an athiest group. Do you want to know the real whopper? Kay Hagan is an elder in the Presbyterian Church AND a Sunday School teacher. Hear that "there is no god" at the end? That was a hired actor to sound like Hagan. Admitted to by Dole's campaign.

This has nothing to do with athiesm or Christianity vs. whatever. This is tied in with the rest of my post perfectly. Fabricated crap compounded by twisting words. confused

Smiley faces make everything better. I promise to make a shorter post next time.

-- Edited by w1ntermute at 10:20, 2008-10-30