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cobalt neko · Veteran Member

is there equality......

Miss_Mew · Veteran Member

I think you are right on this.. when the balance shifts and the Dom takes what the sub truly is not able to give then the balance shifts and I think the relationship shifts into or willing to take then there again is an imbalance. In the presence of imbalance in either form... if 'equality is not met at some point I would think that D/s relationship is ultimately doomed or one or the other person is...

*licks the back of her forepaw.. and swabs it across the back of her left ear.....and proceeds with the morning bathing ritual*....

Crystal · Senior Member

In my case I'm secretly in control. If I don't like where something is going I can stop the action, the dom can't necicarily do that. And if there isn't that option for the sub to do that then I think you're in a very different relationship than a d/s one.

Miss_Mew · Veteran Member

I remember a CSI episode from ages ago.. and this Mistress did say that the sub is the one in control of the scene really... Then again the Dom could stop whenever he/she chooses too thereby denying the sub and that definitely smacks of control too.... Perhaps more of a matter of who exercises which form of control .. when.. but the basic idea of equality seems appropriate.

Faete · Senior Member

This is a hard question because there can never really be one answer. It is different for each relationship.

Personally, do *I* consider myself equal with my Master? No, and I do not want to consider myself equal with him. I don't strive for it, and I don't need to be equal to be needed, loved and happy.

BUT the actual mechanics of the relationship ARE an exchange. I am giving something to him, and he is in turn giving something to me. THAT *could* be considered an equality of sorts.

Since we are in a consentual relationship, anything which he takes from me is really something which I am GIVING to him. So, I suppose there is some equality there.

I can see how in some other relationships which may not be consentual that there may not be equality, but I consider thoes kinds of situations to be more abusive than useful.

Miss_Mew · Veteran Member

Completely agrees with Faete... *also looks up at her own first post which seemed ot make sense.. and reads now as total gibberish ahah I thin ki must've deleted a full sentence and a half.. LMAO*

cobalt neko · Veteran Member

i was not sure how this debate would turn out i am glad to see the interaction and the pearls of wisdom so to speak. i do remember that episode of csi it was with the Mistress known as Miss Heather. stifles a giggle from crystals post and looks to her and winks ~we are kittens /nekos we are always secretly incontrol well almost always. but those times we are not ~giggles evilly~ WEEEEE lots of fun. may it be tangled in a ball of yarn or a nice set of restraints to the bed or even of course my favorite shibari bindings ~drools~ =^_^=

Jage · Member

I disagree with your definition of equality. In my time, I've heard over and over again that a true D/s relationship should, by rights, revolve around the submissive's desires and wants - because without them, that Dom* would have no one to be dominant to. I'd like to see a Dom try and dominate their boss, for instance.

When you come down to it, you have to have equality in a relationship like this; the sub can't be there because of fear, self-abuse, or anything else but that they want to be. This can encompass all varieties - they want to be there because of love, friendship, good sex, etc. etc. Unfortunately, in my experience, I've found very, very few subs who adhere to this very basic level of self-respect. Also, because I've met subs who have that (and more) as a level of self-respect, I don't believe it's just in the basic nature of a submissive personality - I tend to think that it's because of past abuse and trauma (which, in this screwed up society, all of us have).

This may just be me, but in my relationships, there needs for my submissive to have a sense that they are wanted, beautiful, and above all, respected and equal. They need to have the mental and emotional freedom to tell me to **** off if I pressure them, or if they just don't feel like it - I would never take away that physical freedom.

Comes down to it: submissives can't ever be objects or property, without will and freedom. Otherwise there's no power to give - and isn't the kick of it this power exchange relationship?

*gender-neutral.

cobalt neko · Veteran Member

ah you are right most think that a D/s relationship revolves around a subs needs and desires but in reality it revolves around both the subs and Doms desires for each give one another something in exchange. consider looking at it this way a sub and Dom or Domme are like the yin-yang you cant have one with out the other. if we we do not have oppisites how can we define something with out a point of refference. such as you can not have light with out dark good with out evil so on and so forth. Now lets move on to power exchange and this is a subject i truely enjoy cause i have seen both sides and believe me each is very empowering. when a Dom or Domme gives an order or exerts there superiority which is what one thing that sub craves and the Dom gets the resaults He or She wished to get does that make them satisfied in the end as well. if you think about it this is a very basic form of equality. or you could reffer to newtons laws of physics every action equal but oppisite reaction. once again though this is my opinion and yours as is yours and we are all entitled to our own opinions

Jage · Member

True, and no worries, you don't have to add the disclaimer. But for me, since I come from a more... hmm, animal-centered point of view, D/s relationships have always been about serving the submissive's needs, and getting emotional gratification (and uh, great sex) from that.

In the mindset I come from, the dominant animal takes care of and protects the submissive animal. (One reason why I've never been able to grok the idea of 'service subs'.) The simple reason for this is, in most cases, the person who is fulfilling the needs of another has the power. Look at it this way: if you need to be fed, and someone's feeding you, is there not more power for them than for you?

Partially this is just my upbringing as well - the more capable and self-sufficient you are, the more power you have. And then my feminism: power is not forcing someone to submit to you through sheer physicality - it's them choosing to submit to you for X reason other than coercion (by self or other) and physical force. And to larger extent, power for me is not being able to make someone scared - it's being able to make someone feel safe when they are scared.

Perspective in my relationship: I feed, bathe, brush etc. my little wolfboy, and in return he showers me with devotion and will do pretty much everything I say. It makes sense, in this sense. I hold the power, so I use that power to care for him - and he's given up his power to do these things on a general basis. (Now, I am completely incapable of making pizza dough or anything with yeast, so obviously this doesn't apply to everything. :P)

Egh, back to the topic - I think I strayed there for a little bit. My point (couldn't I have done this in the first place?) is that if there's no equality - if the sub or Dom can't take care of zemself - then there can't be any power exchange simply because one of the parties doesn't hold any power over themselves that they can give away. There can't be a power exchange if both parties don't hold power. And personally, I don't think there can be a satisfying power exchange if there isn't equality in power - that doesn't make for a very SSC situation. Frankly, I think one of the biggest turn-ons is that my puppy could probably kick my ass, physically, if he wanted to. :P But he wouldn't, for multiple reasons, one being that we're not switchy, we're just mutable in day-to-day roles (cooking pizza, for instance).

Am I making sense at all here or am I just blowing smoke? 'Cause all of that was just an elaboration of the idea that "you have to have power to give it away".

Joli Minou · Senior Member

Holy crap. O.O

*applauds Jade*

Very... VEEERRRYYY well said!

cobalt neko · Veteran Member

as for the point of you have to have power to give it away yes that is so true you made perfect sense. do not worry i ramble on and go way off in left field myself sometimes.

as for my background i have served my Mistress for 4 years and my greatest satisfaction has always been serving her. we have never really had a sexual relationship really. at first all i was looking for was guidence and purpose in my life, mind you we have had sex only a few times since i was first collared. what i seek now is a different purpose for my life one that is as important to me as my Mistress always will be. hence why i seek a kitty companion a neko girl to create a balance in my life. if i do find someone that person must always remember i am a collared sub first and foremost.

as for the one doing the feeding and the one being fed hmm that is tough cause well each person serves a role if they do nothing then they simply exsist and in the animal world they do not last long. even in a wolf pack everyone serves there purpose you have your hunters your den mothers and of course the alpha male and alpha female. does not the wolf pack serve as a balance in nature they kill to stay alive and keep the creatures healthy. this is known to some as survival of the fittest or the circle of life.

Rasari · Member

Definately agree with the aspect of equality. That was one of the reasons many potential keepers for me failed miserably and quickly.

They assumed that a pet was a purely subservient position and as such that I should do ANYTHING they want, when they want it. Such as support them... Or do degrading tasks... Or dangerous things... Or things that frightened me due to past experiences... And that trust and respect wasn't needed because a pet, to them, is merely a possession and not a living being. They assume that their role is to simply take at whim and give nothing back. As such, I pity the real animals these people 'cared' for.

But its the keeper that tends to the needs and wellbeing of the pet. They support the pet. They tend to the pets emotional needs. In order for the pet to love them and be devoted to them and want to please them... They need to be able to tend to the pets needs and wants.

And the level of training and submission would depend on who the pet is and what type of therianthropic persona they fit. Obviously, a Pup would be more likely to be submissive and eager to please than a cat or kitten. And when you start dealing with exotics like a tiger persona for example... You're just as likely to get bit or ignored as you are kissed or doted upon. Your dealing with more tempermental individuals who are much less likely to be meek, submissive and eager to please as they are tolerant, demanding and proud.

Oppa supports me. In return, I try to keep things tidy. Oppa keeps me fed and happy, I do the same in return. He gives me his fidelity, and I give him mine. He makes sacrifices for me, and I do the same for him. Oppa spoils me rotten, and I will go out of my way to please him. He goes out of his way to satisfy me in the bedroom and I entertain every whim and fantasy that I can safely/sensibly occomplish for him. Such as his new desire to take our relationship more into the realm of petplay. (which essentially, the foundation of our marriage already fulfills for us.)

I'm also fiesty. But sometimes I will give over all control to him. Because I love him enough to give him that control over me. And at times, he'll let me run rampant because he knows that I need that outlet at times. As someone else said of their relationship... We're mutable. We're compatible. Where I end, he begins. My shortcomings are his strong points and vise versa. This is what makes our relationship work that all of my previous ones failed with.

If you take without giving, or give and get nothing in return... There are some aspects of that relationship that should be re-evaluated. Because both individuals, regardless of their station in the relationship, need to be satisfied and happy with the arrangement.

cobalt neko · Veteran Member

wow that was beautifully put it is heart warming to her such things. =^_^=

Delhome · Veteran Member

If each of the participants take turns....

Mr_Buttons · Newbie

I also completely agree with Jage.. as I was taught by whom I've respected -- and through what I've seen in other similar relationships -- and through personal experience with my lover/owner/puppygirl.

If anything I'd tell someone that its not equal cause the submissive holds all of the power. ;) I see submissiveness as being the showcase car that everyone wants to drive.. and the Dominant being the talented driver that can get the absolute most out of that machine.

Calico Bel · Veteran Member

In a happy dom/sub (/dom/pet) relationship, I feel there is an odd sort of harmony. Perhaps you cannot call it equality, after all, one is romping around on the floor while the other stands above, but yet both are happy. As one who yearns for the security submission gives me, I can honestly say I am very happy as a pet. I serve my Master and make sure he is happy. I follow (most) orders and am submissive to him. Yet, at any point, I have the power to say "I don't want to do this" or "stop" and he will listen and obey. The whole relationship hinges on that key bit of trust. No matter what happens, it will not go too far, because I have the power to say no, to stop everything.

I also believe that it is the job of the Master to look out for his/her pet. He/she makes sure the pet is happy, getting the love and affection they need, and are healthy and well. A happy pet is one that will serve well and be the most loyal. There are Doms that choose to ignore pets' basic needs, but all they end up with is a miserable pet, and soon no pet at all when the pet says enough and leaves to find the attention and love they need somewhere else.

So I guess...it's an odd equality, though all involved like to see it a little differently. In the end, though, it's a rather symbiotic relationship, as both benefit, and both are happy.