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Kitten · Senior Member

mono vs poly

Mynx · Senior Member

I'm a flexible person and I've always told my Mistress that I'll do anything for her, which would include poly. But it's not something I'm really interested in. I would think it would just get too confusing. (That, and she's reeeeeeeeeally possessive.) I have nothing against it at all, as it's just another lifestyle. But I prefer my nice monogamous lifestyle. I'm the only one my Mistress dotes on.

kisa · Senior Member

i don't think i could. i'm fine with sharing my Master every once in a while, but in the end He's all mine and He has said the same.

Crystal · Senior Member

I'm a greedy little brat. Even though I'm greedy I'd be willing to allow a third player now and then... but I don't want them spending the night.

Tygra · Senior Member

I don't share nor accept to be shared, so yes totally against Poly.

Also can't understand how one male can have/please/satisfy/ect more than one female.
I mean, surely he can't give the same amount of attention to more than one woman so there's bound to be someone suffering in such a household.

At least this is my opinion.

Faete · Senior Member

Well, I think first off after reading the responses, that a lot of you seem to be confused as to what a poly relationship really is.

Being polyamarous means that you don't believe that there is only one person out there for you.

Usually, when a person is in a polyamarous relationship, they will sit down with their partner, and talk about who they want to bring into the relationship. So, let's say you are dating person A. Person A, and Person B would talk about weather or not they BOTH liked Person C, and weather or not they are both OK with having them in the relationship.

Right now, I am not in a poly relationship, per se.. But I am in a relationship which allows me to date other women. Personally, I am bisexual, and I don't think I could ever choose one sex over the other.

That's not to say that I date every woman I know. In my life, I have only ever dated three women. However, the love I shared with them was not less than the love that I have shared with men.

Could I do poly again? Yes. But only under the right circumstances, and only if there was a lot of honesty and openness between all of us. Honestly though, I don't think I would be comfortable with having more than one or two others in our relationship. I know there's a lot of people out there who have many many partners, but I am jealous too, and I could never keep up with that.

Love_Bunny · Veteran Member

"It doesn't matter where the body wanders as long as the heart stays in the right place"

I am not opposed to a mono relationship, but I can't deny it doesn't appeal to me fully. I see a very thick wall between love and lust. If there is real love and trust between partners they should be capable of being physically with whomever, but always come back home in the end. I just fail to see where poly is wrong if both parties agree on it.

MissAbsinthe · Senior Member

Sometimes I like to imagine I'm flexible enough to envision myself in a house full of mewling kittens. But who am I kidding? I can barely share him with a real cat without getting jealous!
I'm not saying Poly can't work, just that 98% of the time it doesn't.
Now, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind playmates of kittens to come over for photoshoots, thats another bucket of fish...Mmm bucket of fish. >^-^

MissAbsinthe · Senior Member

Love_Bunny wrote:

"It doesn't matter where the body wanders as long as the heart stays in the right place"

I am not opposed to a mono relationship, but I can't deny it doesn't appeal to me fully. I see a very thick wall between love and lust. If there is real love and trust between partners they should be capable of being physically with whomever, but always come back home in the end. I just fail to see where poly is wrong if both parties agree on it.

Oh...And Love Bunny *Licks her lips and bares her teeth* You can come over to my house for dinner anytime. ;)

Faete · Senior Member

MissAbsinthe wrote:

bucket of fish...Mmm bucket of fish. >^-^

All I heard was "bucket of fish". Mew mew mew. ^_^

KittenMaster · Veteran Member

I often think that I would very much like to find another kitten or cat nanny to play with Absinthe during the day... to groom her and look after her and basically entertain her. But it never quite works out, does it?

In truth, I don't have much desire to pet another kitty myself - but it really is that I am selfish. You see... Miss Absinthe is... ((be nice, KittenMaster, be nice))... high maintenance.

*ducks*

I'm looking for someone to make my life EASIER, not looking for 24/7 jealous drama and cat fights. So for now, I think Miss Absinthe is right... playdates, teaparties and photoshoots... but NO sleepovers.

Faete · Senior Member

KittenMaster wrote:

I'm looking for someone to make my life EASIER, not looking for 24/7 jealous drama and cat fights.

I think this is where most people are getting confused. A poly relationship is completely different. I've been in a few, and jealous drama and cat fights did not exist.

It was either everyone agreed on adding this additional person, and spending an equal time with all parties or there was NO additional person.

I completely understand how people would not want to be in a poly relationship. It isn't for everyone. But I wish people would understand that poly relationships are not all about fighting or drama.

They are just relationships in which you love more than one person at a time. :)

Kitten · Senior Member

as ive said i could never handle Master having another slave aswell as me, but i do sometimes think it would be nice to have a slave kitty friend i could talk to.

KittenMaster · Veteran Member

Faete wrote:

KittenMaster wrote:

I'm looking for someone to make my life EASIER, not looking for 24/7 jealous drama and cat fights.

I think this is where most people are getting confused. A poly relationship is completely different. I've been in a few, and jealous drama and cat fights did not exist.

It was either everyone agreed on adding this additional person, and spending an equal time with all parties or there was NO additional person.

I completely understand how people would not want to be in a poly relationship. It isn't for everyone. But I wish people would understand that poly relationships are not all about fighting or drama.

They are just relationships in which you love more than one person at a time. :)

In fairness, this was very much my previous mindset. It probably still is. I read a lot (all?) of Heinlein at a very young and impressionable age. When I met Absinthe, I often quoted Lazarus Long:

"The more you love, the more you can love -- and the more intensely you love."

I do still believe this is true and beautiful. I would love to have a harem of kittens to love and adore (and photograph!). I have always had lots of non-human pets. I love caring for them, and have never found that adding another in any way diminishes my ability to love the previous ones.

I am idealistic enough to believe I could make this could work. But I am also wise enough to realize when it won't. Some kittens are very... territorial. Perhaps polyamory is something that can be learned. But I am not sure that it is something that can be taught.

So, I remain open to the possibility, but recognize that it would have to be an incredibly rare cosmic alignment to actually work given the personality of the resident slave kitten.

She is, afterall, my soul. My familiar. My kitten.

*smiles*

Kitten · Senior Member

Master and i have discussed the reasons why i would not like a partner slave and he understands my reasons....im simply just too territorial and Master has always said he would never do anything that would harm or traumatise me, and polyamory would traumatise me........im a very sensitive kitten.
give me hundreds of real kittens and i'd be fine :p

Faete · Senior Member

Well, I hope I didn't offend anyone. I fully 100% respect anyone's right to be monogamous. I just wanted to point out that a polyamarous relationship is really a very different thing than what most of you seem to be typing about.

When you are in a polyamarous relationship, there's not any need for jealousy. It's much different.

But then again, I'm not really poly right now either. ;) My Master allows me to play with women, but not in a serious way. He is QUITE the jealous type. *giggle*

To each their own. ^_^

Kitten · Senior Member

i know that to be polyamous you could really be jealous and that just something i couldnt do, i get jealous and possesive if anyone even flirts with Master =>.

Love_Bunny · Veteran Member

MissAbsinthe wrote:

Oh...And Love Bunny *Licks her lips and bares her teeth* You can come over to my house for dinner anytime. ;)

Now now MissAbsinthe, I'm not one to be eaten. but if you would like to play with my Kitty sometime i wouldn't mind at all. I could picture you two fishing together. with KittenMaster's appoval of course.

Joli Minou · Senior Member

O.O ... That'd be SO. MUCH. FUN. *snicker*

-- Edited by Joli Minou at 06:39, 2008-07-18

LaLa · Veteran Member

Mrew...
I's a sensitive kitten.
I require my Master's complete attention, and being the shy and timid kitten I am...having an extra set of paws around Master, would only fuel my jealousy. I would feel as though he loved me less. ^^; Even if he said he didn't love me less...it would still really feel like it.

I am not one for sharing. Period.

~LaLa

MasterMorhion · Veteran Member

While It would be interesting to have other kittens around, or to allow my kitten to interact with others (which I fully plan to do at a later date :P), anything other then playing, or making friends I don't belive I'd be interested in. Both my kitten and I (as short as things have been) both agree that we are very posessive, so as such a poly type relationship simply wouldn't be productive for either of us :P

Tsubi_ · Veteran Member

heh I'm exactly like Kitten, I get jealous and have a fear of being a stray because of a new cat rarhh I'll sabotage that new kitty >=] bwuahaha die ..yea I never like poly =]

but a kitten get together play group sounds fun too like you guys said ^-^ like that one time i saw my cat sitting on the fence gossiping with other cats around the neighbourhood in my backyard, cute. Who want to sit on the fence with me lol with our tails dangling and someone comes and pull on it

Temko · Senior Member

poly. definetly.... maybe.

why?

let me explain exacly what faete explained.

i love my wife, but i would not object a third person (woman) in our relationship. why a woman? becouse i'm strait. i cant love another guy, it's that simple.

when i see "our" relationship i do mean our. there is no "third wheel" going on. nor could there be. we would both need to love this person as much as we love each other, and that person would need to love both of us as well.

it's not a harem or even polygamy. it's 3 people in a monagamous relationship.

why do i think i'll be a good thing?

- i'm emotionally dead. it's hard for me to express even the simplet of things and it frustrates and even hurts her, having someone to show her she is loved, someone that understands me as well as she does when i cant express myself is a godsent.

- time-outs: i get tired, go out, have to work late, etc.. etc.. - this way she wont be alone, but she'll have someone she loves with her. (this goes all 3 ways)

- fights. we disagree, naturally. a third person that can help in such a situation is unlike anything else. when there are 2 people breathing down your neck you'll be quicker to go "okay okay... maybe it was me".

- lifeline. i cant always be there, i have 60-80 hour workweeks, trips, private matters to attend, etc... if something happens i cant aways be there at that time. i'll try my best of course (i've gotten up at 3 AM before to grab a taxi and drive 80 miles to pick her up becouse she had a nightmare), but when i cant be there - i want there to be someone she can trust with all her soul.

i dont understand how yelousy CAN come into it, it's not " i'm sharing him/her with him/her" it's exactly NOT that. its "we are all together". the best thing i can compare it to is a 3-way marriage. not a man with 2 wifes, but 3 people married.

i suck at explaining but should my wife and i ever meet someone we feel is right in our lives, we'll take that opperunity.

kimonokitty · Senior Member

I'm like kitten.

I would always being afraid of being the 3rd wheel. I don't think I could ever come into someone else's relationship for fear that they would never love me as much as they love each other, and I could never bring another into our relationship because I would be afraid of being usurped from my position.

All in all... that's really a trust thing. Certainly the same could go wrong in a monogamous relationship too, but in poly there's not just one person to focus on making happy but two (at least).
Not to mention... I've got Catholic beliefs paving the way ahead of me and if were to marry then poly would be considered adultery or to come into a marriage would be me causing others to sin. Of course, all that is just for me.

imissmanny · Senior Member

I'm open to poly..... I don't like most polys I meet though.... Most of the people I meet use poly as a loose term for '****s everything' lol. But, yeah.... I would be willing to allow a third person into my relationship for me and Tim to love :D.

It's funny cause TIM's the one who's worried about it. He doesn't want to hurt me.... But as long as he loves me I don't really care if there's another person. That just brings even more love into the relationship! I'm not a very jealous type unless people compare me to someone or when someone tries to tell me they're better than me. Grr. *claws* But yeah

I'd really one day like to have another girl in my relationship.... As long as there's no favoring or comparing or anything like that. It would take some serious screening :3.

I just miss having a girl around who I can talk to about anything, but can still be intimate with... And it's weird not having a girl to ask how I look in an outfit and ask if this makes me look fat and stuff. Cause you don't really get the right answers out of guys :O.

Oops.... I ranted :D

Temko · Senior Member

imissmanny wrote:

I'd really one day like to have another girl in my relationship.... As long as there's no favoring or comparing or anything like that. It would take some serious screening :3.

yes, it it would take some serious screening. lets see what kind of persion my wife and i both enjoy.

- Certain Body shape (in the end, the way she looks IS important) she need to be "small" in all sizes, but not child-small. (>160CM <180CM) long haired, and SLIM (excess fat & celulitus makes me want to puke. it realy doens't take a lot of workout to keep 'in shape'.)

- brains & style (i cant stand "barbie" woman - not physicly, mentally i mean. i need to be able to talk to someone in my way. both my wife and i use a lot of sarcasm, irony and double meanings in our conversations. someone that doesn't get that we cant talk with. that and i hate the collor pink :P)

- oh, did i mention she needs to be a sub &into the same stuff we are? yeah... there's that.

...well. i think i've just removed 6.1billion kanditates... 200mil possible ones left worldwide :S

so yes... screening is hard and unlikely - but being open to is a good thing in my eyes ;0

Truro · Veteran Member

I don't mind sharing -- I was pretty liberal with my ex experimenting a bit. As long as I know I'm cared about having more love to spread around sounds good to me ^^

imissmanny · Senior Member

Ummm yeah..... when I say screening, I mean I don't want someone who's going to cause drama or make our relationship chaos. I think screening as harshly as you just stated is somewhat normal for a guy who knows nothing about women, but to state it outloud? THAT'S just ignorant. Sorry but that was very rude.

Temko · Senior Member

the problem is that i do know about woman, and the second issue is exactly on top of that.
i know what i enjoy in a woman.
that said, i also know what my wife enjoys in a woman.

now, i can "have fun" and even date a myrad of woman, but in the end it''s pretty much impossible for me to find someone thats fits my criteria for being in our relationship.

when i talk about how someone looks i dont just mean the way her body is. i've dated some of the most beautifull woman before walking off in utter disgust due to their behavior/personality.

a woman has to carry herself a certain to even get my attention for longer then a glace, on top of that she has to look attractive to me (bearing, pose, movement, voice, name it.. i'm a picky ass, one thing of and i'm not interested). it has nothing to do with ignorance and a lot to do with my/our/her preference in people.

should i be laxer for someone i/my wife will spend our life with? no. i demand the best i can get - i got my wife. why should i suddenly decide to losen what i desire? i shouldn't and wont. I know what my wife and i enjoy (and mostly i'm talking about physice and social behavior - kind of hard to explain, but based on the factial expression someone has, the way they move or talk, gesture or look i can pretty much sum up their personallity in the first minute of seeing/hearing them. -)

when we date someone we try to see how they react to situations. some react in ways that i find repulsive others in ways my wife doesn't like... some we continue to date. some we dont. in the end - it's the choice of 3 people if they feel in love with each other to start a polygamous relationship.

regadless of how "harsh" our screening is. screening is more then jsut checking if someone is a junkie/drama queen. it's making sure that someone is right for us. so it's more of a screening/social study/get-to-know all in one.

and yes i'm a stuborn man. i refuse anything but the best i can get. 2d best is not good enough.

The_Sequel · Veteran Member

Inserting my own opinion. I'm a lot like Temko, very stubborn, very picky. I have my perfect vision, every quality picked out, and strafing from that just...doesn't work. It's an unfortunate quality, though one I can't change. And all of these qualities I desire are nearly impossible to find in one woman.

I've never believed in monogamy. Whatever justification I've given it over the years, it just never seemed right to me. As 'hippie' as it may sound, I love everyone. I don't really love my girlfriend anymore than I do my best friends (male or female). I would take a bullet for any of them, do anything to make them happy, etc. etc. etc. My girlfriend (or supposed boyfriend, although i've never had one) just happens to be the one who wants to have sex with me at the time. To me, it doesn't de-value the relationship or feelings, it's just what it is. Just like I'm a naturally touchy, flirty person :P. That's something people get used to.

So, to put a cap on this, yes I do believe in polygamy (or polyamory, technically. Marraige has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. To me, marraige is just a legal process). Although I consider myself as selfless as I can be in relationships; it's completely up to my partner (the first patner that might be in this polyamorous relationship...it's hard to find that kind of relationship all at once) whether or not other people are involved. So I've had both, poly and monoamory. Not only do I prefer polyamorous, but I find they are the most stable relationships (at least in my experience).

-- Edited by The_Sequel at 22:25, 2009-01-21

Bestia Vinco · Senior Member

Faete wrote:

Well, I think first off after reading the responses, that a lot of you seem to be confused as to what a poly relationship really is.

.....

For a fun look at the idea of a poly relationship check out the movie "Summer Lovers"

kisa-chan · Veteran Member

MissAbsinthe wrote:

Sometimes I like to imagine I'm flexible enough to envision myself in a house full of mewling kittens. But who am I kidding? I can barely share him with a real cat without getting jealous!
I'm not saying Poly can't work, just that 98% of the time it doesn't.
Now, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind playmates of kittens to come over for photoshoots, thats another bucket of fish...Mmm bucket of fish. >^-^

I feel the same way. I could never share Master, I don't even like it when he plays with my cat. I would like to play with other kitties, but I don't think Master would want more then one kitty/fox laying around the house. I would enjoy the company, but I would be jealous

faery · Veteran Member

Just to react to the picky guys above me: Uhm... isn't polyamory about love? So about falling in love with someone? I can imagine that you like certain qualities over others, and that certain things (like intelligence) are really important, but I get the feeling you look at it a bit too technical...

For myself, I'm quite monogamous. I prefer to have one partner at the time. The only problem is that I'm also bisexual and that I don't want to ignore that side of me, even though I really love my (male) partner. I hope that in time, I can find a girl to have a sort of friendship-with-some-extras with. Preferably she has a primary partner too. I don't want to triangle situation as described above, that would take too much of my jealousy issues. I would not mind doing stuff with the three (or four) of us, but I want a girlfriend, for -me- (how selfish that may sound...). I also would have difficulties if my partner wanted an extra girl as well (an extra boy would be completely fine, but he's not bi).

I understand this actually sounds poly, but I don't identify with that term. I am not poly, I'm just mono but some extra needs.

-- Edited by faery at 20:54, 2009-02-12

Temko · Senior Member

wile it may sound "technical", love, in the end is nothing more then a biological reaction to a "fitting" mating partner.

naturally, a woman does not have to be "perfect" in every way. just in mine, and my wife's.
so wile i'm picky. i refuse to be anything else.

i've dated my share of "less-then-perfect" (for me) woman, and none of them have had me so much as glace back when i broke it off. i just wasn't "in love" with them.

so wile love decides in the end how far we are willing to go to see our partners faults, and work to live with/solve them, both parties have to be attracted to someone first.
this can be physically, emotionally, ethically, socially or intellectually.

i just care about physical and intellectual, the rest are moot points to me, my wife on the other hand is quite vehement about emotionall attachment - so thats 3 of out of 5... and thats a lot to expect from someone ;)

it's kind of hard for me to explain in words but basicly boils down to this.
"is there chemistry between the 3 of us"

Saberrah · Senior Member

imissmanny wrote:

Ummm yeah..... when I say screening, I mean I don't want someone who's going to cause drama or make our relationship chaos. I think screening as harshly as you just stated is somewhat normal for a guy who knows nothing about women, but to state it outloud? THAT'S just ignorant. Sorry but that was very rude.

*Cheers loudly for Imissmanny, wildly clapping her paws together!*
It really should be about personality and how well the people involved get along (i.e. none of them are insane and will go on a murdering spree). Narrowing it down to EXACTLY what a person looks like (I'm sorry, but EVERYONE has excess "cellulite" to some degree) really does make the person sound like they're back in highschool and are quite "fresh".

Everyone has they're idea of the perfect woman/man, right? Good. Now toss that out, cause THEY DON'T EXIST! I agree that someone who takes care of themself is appealing (they shower daily and try their best to look their best) but weight has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Personality is the kicker, the one that counts. Looks is secondary. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that every woman more than likely feels the same way.
If I were poly...(I've got a set of friends that are definitely trying to convince us -Sir and I; or maybe just me- to go that route) personality would be what I would look for in a person. Apperance is nice, but it's not the deciding factor, ever.

-- Edited by Saberrah at 04:32, 2009-02-13

kimonokitty · Senior Member

Well I'm gonna step up and get my buddy's back here for a moment *grins playfully*
(while responding to no one in particular)

I think attraction has a lot to do with it. Yes, personality will be the deciding factor, and even Temko agreed to that, but not everybody can be expected to put all attraction aside for the sake of personality.
The internet has been a great weapon in the fight against the ideas of shallow attraction. You can meet and fall in love (ok, maybe not me, but some can) with someone without ever seeing them. You know the person, you've spent a ton of time with them, talked to them on the phone, whatever. You may think they're the person of your dreams. But there is still a chance that when you meet, you may not have "chemistry". It happens. That chemistry comes from the physical attraction to them. And then you're left to suffer the guilt of feeling shallow.

Well, I don't think it's shallow. It's natural chemistry at work. It's not as if I suddenly think them less of a person, or no longer wish to be around them or know them (THAT would make me shallow). I just don't have chemistry with them. I just can't help that.
Of course, the opposite has happened too (actually a lot more often). Meet someone super-hot. Instantly attracted. LOTS of chemistry. Then they open their mouth and it's all downhill from there. Bleh...

As for the cellulite thing. Well, yes, just about everyone has it, and no they haven't found a way to get rid of it yet (much to my chagrin), but that doesn't mean it can't be lessened, and if you are really that interested in being with a certain person that just so happens to want a certain body type, then you have to also be willing to work toward that. If you don't want to, or don't think you should, then you need to be with a different person, one who won't care about that, instead of trying to change the opinion of the first.

If I'm just not attracted to hair, will you spend your time convincing me that I should pay more attention to your personality, or will you shave your hair? (shush, you know what hair I'm talking about)
If you're going to be with me, you're going to shave your hair.
(now, that was JUST an analogy, I actually don't mind hair)

Or, let's turn it around. Let's say you were ONLY attracted to heavy women. Little girls just don't do it for you at all. Let's just say...hmmm... you can't get "excited". Great personality or not, you just don't like skinny chics. If a skinny girl decides she wants to be with you bad enough that she'll gain a whole bunch of weight in order for you to find her attractive, would that somehow be more acceptable than if some girl wanted to reshape her body into a skinny minnie in order to be attractive to a C/couple that doesn't like cellulite?

I doubt that Temko/wife would dismiss someone solely on the basis that they got a juicy booty. (lol, ju-sayyy) More like it sounds as if the person would be dismissed if she chose not to do the things that were required by the household (i.e. girl must work out/be healthy to make her body more pleasing).

That's my 12 cents
(cause it was a lot more than 2)

Temko · Senior Member

kimonokitty wrote:

Well I'm gonna step up and get my buddy's back here for a moment *grins playfully*
(while responding to no one in particular)
haha, i do have to sleep timetimes ;)

I think attraction has a lot to do with it. Yes, personality will be the deciding factor, and even Temko agreed to that, but not everybody can be expected to put all attraction aside for the sake of personality.
The internet has been a great weapon in the fight against the ideas of shallow attraction. You can meet and fall in love (ok, maybe not me, but some can) with someone without ever seeing them. You know the person, you've spent a ton of time with them, talked to them on the phone, whatever. You may think they're the person of your dreams. But there is still a chance that when you meet, you may not have "chemistry". It happens. That chemistry comes from the physical attraction to them. And then you're left to suffer the guilt of feeling shallow.

Well, I don't think it's shallow. It's natural chemistry at work. It's not as if I suddenly think them less of a person, or no longer wish to be around them or know them (THAT would make me shallow). I just don't have chemistry with them. I just can't help that.
Of course, the opposite has happened too (actually a lot more often). Meet someone super-hot. Instantly attracted. LOTS of chemistry. Then they open their mouth and it's all downhill from there. Bleh...

Oh yeah... this happens pleny. i'll see a pretty girl and then observe for a minute, and in that minute you can pretty much learn everything you need to about someone before asking them out. How? simple, how doe she look around, drink, eat, talk, move her head/hand/leg/body in a conversation, etc... all of this is basic analysis of someone. and it makes them attractive, or ugly. (regardless of how they "look".) Celluitus is just a example, my wife has a litle, but she works out to keep herself fit. as do I to work out to be able to keep going ;)

there is a lot involved with picking a partner, and the perfect person DOES exist. just dont expect to find him/her that easy. but i did find the wife, didn't I? Finding them twice over is just plain insane, and i dont expect we ever will, but that doesn''t mean we'll settle for anything less then waht we see as perfect, regarless of how others see it.

As for the cellulite thing. Well, yes, just about everyone has it, and no they haven't found a way to get rid of it yet (much to my chagrin), but that doesn't mean it can't be lessened, and if you are really that interested in being with a certain person that just so happens to want a certain body type, then you have to also be willing to work toward that. If you don't want to, or don't think you should, then you need to be with a different person, one who won't care about that, instead of trying to change the opinion of the first.
this is most important in my mind. working towords pleasing your partners, instead of "expecting" them to accept you are you are. of course there are limits but you should be willing to give and take a little. i've let grow my hair and taken on a goate becouse my wife likes it. she's let grow het hair and is working out to keep her body fit and in the way i like it.

If I'm just not attracted to hair, will you spend your time convincing me that I should pay more attention to your personality, or will you shave your hair? (shush, you know what hair I'm talking about)
If you're going to be with me, you're going to shave your hair.
(now, that was JUST an analogy, I actually don't mind hair)

Or, let's turn it around. Let's say you were ONLY attracted to heavy women. Little girls just don't do it for you at all. Let's just say...hmmm... you can't get "excited". Great personality or not, you just don't like skinny chics. If a skinny girl decides she wants to be with you bad enough that she'll gain a whole bunch of weight in order for you to find her attractive, would that somehow be more acceptable than if some girl wanted to reshape her body into a skinny minnie in order to be attractive to a C/couple that doesn't like cellulite?

I doubt that Temko/wife would dismiss someone solely on the basis that they got a juicy booty. (lol, ju-sayyy) More like it sounds as if the person would be dismissed if she chose not to do the things that were required by the household (i.e. girl must work out/be healthy to make her body more pleasing).
not just the girl, i work out too. but yes, thats the gist of it.

That's my 12 cents
(cause it was a lot more than 2)

i've interlaced it with green. :P

faery · Veteran Member

I still don't completely agree. Yes, looks are important too, I never said they weren't, but I do sortof have a problem with the "working to please your partner", especially in the looks-department. I would feel very, very bad if a guy I liked, and he liked me too, would say: I'lll only date you if you lose 10 pounds, or something similar. That would make me run and hide, and I would never date him.
Same goes if my current boyfriend would say something similar. I would appreciate it if he would help me lose weight, if I already wanted that myself, but him telling me that I should? Or me changing in that sense because it would please him?

This does not mean I don't think about what my boyfriend likes, or that I don't want to please him. I'm considering cutting of my hair and I am discussing that with him to great lengths. He asks me what kins of beard/goatee I like, and acts accordingly. If the changes are things you want yourself and those are the same things that the partner would like too, I don't really see the problem, but changing stuff solely to please your partner sounds a bit... desperate and shallow.

But this is a completely different topic.

Temko · Senior Member

faery wrote:

I still don't completely agree. Yes, looks are important too, I never said they weren't, but I do sortof have a problem with the "working to please your partner", especially in the looks-department. I would feel very, very bad if a guy I liked, and he liked me too, would say: I'lll only date you if you lose 10 pounds, or something similar. That would make me run and hide, and I would never date him.
That is just stupid on the guys part. i have to be attracted to someone both physicly and emotionally before i consider a relationship. i wont go and say "lose 10 pounds and we'll see". if i dont like someone i'll tell them why, not give them a condition. when i do date someone i'm completly honest if someone asks me what i find pretty/ugly about them i'll tell them. and expect htem to work on it. visa versa goes both ways here. i wont date someone and expect a 180 degree change, but altering ourselfs for our partner(s) is expected.
Same goes if my current boyfriend would say something similar. I would appreciate it if he would help me lose weight, if I already wanted that myself, but him telling me that I should? Or me changing in that sense because it would please him?
going on a limb here but "yes, you should." if your boyfriends tells you that he feels you are getting overweight/whatever. you should consider if he's talking out of his ass, or if he has a point there. back in highschool i had a girlfriend, i told her i REALLY loved her hair (seriously, her hair was made of diamonds, it was that pretty) after a month she dyed it black "to fit in". i broke it of with her. not jsut becouse of the hair, but becouse she KNEW how damn pretty it was and altered herself for the sake of some unknown "fitting in". that and she didn't say anything to me.

This does not mean I don't think about what my boyfriend likes, or that I don't want to please him. I'm considering cutting of my hair and I am discussing that with him to great lengths. He asks me what kins of beard/goatee I like, and acts accordingly. If the changes are things you want yourself and those are the same things that the partner would like too, I don't really see the problem, but changing stuff solely to please your partner sounds a bit... desperate and shallow.
chaning yourself without getting anything in return is desperate, and a parnet that expect you to change yourself but doesn't alter him or herself is shallow. it's a give and take, both ends need to "change" and "grow". only when you are honest to each other about your desires and likes/dislikes can you really grow as a couple. be you 2 or more people in a relationship.

more me!

faery · Veteran Member

The green! It's killing my eyes! (I actually had to highlight it to read it, but that might be my laptop-screen which makes it more difficult as well)

Uhm, no, I shouldn't. My partner loves me for who I am. He might advise me, but things are still my choice (said the submissive :P), and I would think less of him if he would break up with me with something as "little" as haircolor or weight. I don't want my partner to change either. Yes, I would like him to lose weight, but that's purely for health reasons not for looks.

But, in the example you mention, it's not the hairdying in itself that made you break up with her, but the way she did it (not telling) and the reason why (to fit in). I can understand that, in some respects, although I do think it's still a bit... childish...

Maybe I'm overreacting here, but when I was 16 I had a boyfriend who told me that when I ate a "gevulde koek" (uhm... translation please?) I would have to do twice as much situps as I usually did. And in that time, I was not overweight at all (at this moment, just a little). That -really- damaged my self-esteem.
Another ex-boyfriend made me change my complete personality, wanted me to act different towards his friend, his parents, very different from what is me (and I might be on the direct side sometimes, I say what I think: I'm not rude). Needless to say that was quite damaging as well.
This might have leas to me holding on quite extremly to what I want and who I am. That does not mean I don't want to please my partner (because I do), but that I won't change stuff, only because he wants it. And I don't expect that from him as well.

Saberrah · Senior Member

Just show each other a bit of love! Just do it, and you will be theirs! *Giggles*

-- Edited by Saberrah at 13:57, 2009-02-13

-- Edited by Saberrah at 02:12, 2009-02-14

kimonokitty · Senior Member

faery wrote:

....

but changing stuff solely to please your partner sounds a bit... desperate and shallow.

I see your point. And in a normal 'nilla life I think that's correct. However, I am coming from D/s standpoint.
This means that there are many dynamics that one can take. I've personally chosen one where He comes first in all things (in my mind) and everything I do, I do for him. That is part of being a slave in our house. I work completely for his pleasure. In return, all of my needs are met and cared for. Needs, not wants.

This may not be the kind of dynamic you choose to live in, and that's certainly your choice, but it doesn't make me desperate or shallow to want to live like that. It makes me a perfect slave for Him.
It's what we like. But, you would never be with a Master like mine, because this is not the sort of thing you like. Perfectly acceptable.

We all have our preferences and I think we all have a right to have our preferences. None of us are wrong for seeking what we want, or for having said preferences.

(and yes... the green.... MY EYES!!)

-- Edited by kimonokitty at 15:44, 2009-02-13

faery · Veteran Member

In a D/s, especially when things are more TPE-like, I think that is different indeed. I thought you wrote from a more equal-relationship standpoint, and now what you wrote makes much more sense :) You made the choice to be dependent and to have him make all the choices, and as long as that choice has been made out of free will, and he takes good care of you, I can only respect you for it.

And indeed, that's not the dynamic I (we, actually) are going for. I'm kind of attached to making my own choices. When we're together for a longer period of time, and I'm getting more secure again in my submissiveness (had some bad experiences), this might change though :)

w1ntermute · Senior Member

the problem is that i do know about woman

That in itself screams the opposite.

I don't mean for this to be an investigation into your past relationship experience. I mean for this to say: on the internet young men who claim to know a lot about women generally do not.

Choose your words more carefully and things won't go downhill so fast next time.

50 year old men get divorces all the time over petty, insignificant things. I'm sure they claim to know all about women as well.

Time for that age-old phrase: everybodys different.

To come right out and express your exacting specifications for your poly sub, or for that matter 'future girlfriend' reminds me of 1001 posts on similar topics on bad, bad teenage internet forums.

Saberrah · Senior Member

Okays, now that I'm actually awake and can think....!

I personally think it's rather...silly, to decide if someone is worth dating or whatever simply because of how much they weigh, the color of their hair, height, etc. Generally, if the person has good self esteem, they're gonna have a great personality, as well as doing their best to take care of themself.
Everyone has turn ons and turn offs, and I'll agree that obese is highly unattractive, and most are generally with very low self esteem. But, the average person isn't obese. They might have a slight tummy, or a bit more meat on their bones than they would like, but I don't think that makes anyone unattractive. Now if they're dressing totally wrong for their body shape (short shorts, and high tops both too small) yeah, it's not gonna look pretty. I like it when people dress well, no matter what it is they're wearing. As long as it fits and looks good on them, they'll feel great and the self esteem will go up.
Manners, as well are a deciding factor. I personally would never date anyone who'll spit in front of a woman. It's just gross! And, someone who cuses like sailor is highly unattractive, no matter how "cute" or "hot" the person is.
Basically, for me I guess (honestly thought there would be more woman who would agree with this) it all comes down to who the person is, not what they look like.
And to clarify, there is no perfect person out there...just the one who is perfect for you. Two very different things.
And (out side of d/s) a person shouldn't expect the other to change for them. It won't happen. All that'll do is create a rift between the two. Now if the other person is willing to do so, that's another story as well. But to take the choice from them just isn't right. There's always a middle ground, and if that isn't enough, then I say the other person is better off. One shouldn't have to totally rework their personality/lifestyle/likes/anything just because it's what their partner demands. it's a blow to a persons self esteem.

And to sound very corney, it's not what a person looks like, but who they are as a person that should count.

Okays, I'm done!
I swear.
I think....
Yeah, I am.

Temko · Senior Member

*temko feels his way with words is having exactly the opposite effect* i suck at explaining things... :S

That in itself screams the opposite.

I don't mean for this to be an investigation into your past relationship experience. I mean for this to say: on the internet young men who claim to know a lot about women generally do not.

Wile you are right in general, i mean what i say. wile the way i said it was pretty "12 year old figuring out what the thing in his pants does", and open to every wrong interprentation, i mean to say it that i know when a woman wants a certain "something", their body language screams it.

and yes - it does sound pretty stupid when i say it that way :P

To come right out and express your exacting specifications for your poly sub, or for that matter 'future girlfriend' reminds me of 1001 posts on similar topics on bad, bad teenage internet forums

here to my bad way of explaining it a misconception is stated...

hmm, and i dont know how to properly explain it.

A woman has to have a certain "appeal" to me, i am not looking for someone in a checkbox manner and discarding when it doesn't meet the critera.
There is a certain "charm" to a woman when i look at her, and it's very much linked to certain physical aspects of a woman, this "charm" is what attracts me to a woman... i just posted exactly what those aspects are.

Now i explained it in a ever worse manner but basicly "i have to like them" is what it sums up to.

kimonokitty · Senior Member

LOL, I totally get ya!

Rasari · Member

I could never tolerate a polyamorous relationship.

I am admittedly quite selfish. And very possessive. And while I am able to develope and nurture strong friendships... Intimate relationships are another story entirely.

Prior to meeting Oppa, which is who I've married... I was very fickle. I could hardly tolerate any male (or female) in an intimate relationship for longer than two weeks. So I usually kept it casual and maintained friends with benefits. Just to avoid the annoyances of exclusive dating. And this is why Polyamory would never work for me.

It would be highly unlikely that I could develope any long term interest, let alone love, for a third member in our relationship. I'd be too possessive over Oppa to begin with, if not equally possessive of the third member. I would not want them interacting at all together with out me. I'm selfish in that manner.

I'm even that way with my real cat. She is MY girl. MY daughter, if you will. I'm not that way with our other cat and our dog. But MY cat is mine alone, I hand raised her since she was two weeks old. And I will correct anyone, Oppa included, who makes any sort of possessive statement regarding her. And I don't like it when she gives Oppa more attention than she does me.

Now, when it comes to occassional one night stands or threesomes. That I'm open too. But only if *I* caught the mouse and brought her home to Oppa myself. He could not know her name. It would be during one of our trips making the chances of them bumping into each other again not very likely. And I would never use the same mouse twice (where is the fun in that, after all?). But thats not polyamory.

And I don't think I'd mind having a timid little bunny or slave of my own to play with while Oppa is at work or away on work trips... But she would need to be *MINE* entirely. And preferrably a lesbian. Because I wouldn't be inclined to share in that circumstance. And I don't think I'd mind much if Oppa had a male pup or something... And in either case I'd prefer they not live with us.

But he doesn't swing that way. So its me and what ever prey I bring him... Or nothing. Otherwise, I can be exceptionally troublesome.

wingless · Veteran Member

me and my kitten live a fair distance apart at the moment and she enjoys sleeping around and im fine with this (altho i do normally ask for details XD) and it doesent make me jelious at all, this isent because i love her any less but because i dont think love and sex are at all related, i wouldent allow her to date anyone else but sleeping with them is fine and i know she likes that freedom. she knows i sleep with other people as well and similerly she asks for details howevr she does get a little jelious but its the first time shes been in a relationship like this and she does accept it and is happy with it

the idea of having a second kittie (something more premnent as oposed to one offs) does appeal to me but as much for smudge to play with as me and i know smudge would get very jelios in that situation so its not something i could do

Kitten Morris · Veteran Member

I believe that polygamous relationships are very primitive and I will never be involved in one. I need my Master to myself and I will never share him. If he ever feels the need for an extra or new pet, I'd tell him he can have one, but he doesn't get to keep me. Master has never suggested this yet though, so I don't have to worry. Besides that, I don't want another female doing anything for Master sexual or not. I can't even stand the fact that his grandma makes better chocolate chip cookies than me because it makes me feel like I've failed when he asks her to bake some.